在接受播客乔·罗根 （Joe Rogan） 的三个小时采访中，唐纳德·特朗普深入探讨了他关于投票、选举欺诈和他在 2020 年总统选举中失利的虚假声明。罗根帮助鼓励了其中一些索赔。

周五晚些时候发布的采访是在这位前总统在他的社交媒体网络上转发威胁要起诉他认为在 2024 年选举中“作弊”的律师、选民和选举官员的同一天发布的。In his three-hour interview with podcaster Joe Rogan, Donald Trump dug in on his false claims about voting, election fraud and his loss in the 2020 presidential election. Rogan helped encourage some of these claims.

The interview, released late Friday, came on the same day that the former president, on his social media network, re-posted threats to prosecute lawyers, voters and election officials he deems to have “cheated” in the 2024 election.

Here’s a look at some of the claims by the Republican nominee for president and the truth.

以下是共和党总统提名人的一些说法和真相。

特朗普说：“我以点赞获胜——他们说我以点赞获胜——我没有输。

事实：特朗普确实在 2020 年输给了民主党人乔·拜登。特朗普声称欺诈使他失去了竞选资格，这一指控被反复调查。

特朗普自己的司法部长表示，没有迹象表明存在重大欺诈行为。密歇根州共和党控制的州参议院是特朗普声称发生欺诈的摇摆州之一，经过长时间的调查后，该州得出了同样的结论。威斯康星州无党派立法审计局（Legislative Audit Bureau）在另一个州由共和党控制的立法机构下令进行调查，特朗普声称自己被骗而无法获胜，也未发现重大欺诈行为。

当特朗普正确地争辩说他的失败已经接近时，罗根哽咽了。特朗普在六个摇摆州以微弱优势输掉了选举。如果大约81,000张选票翻转，特朗普本可以赢得亚利桑那州、佐治亚州、内华达州和威斯康星州，并在选举人团中获得足够的支持来继续担任总统。

特朗普错误地将这一差距说成是 22,000 票。Trump did lose the 2020 election

WHAT TRUMP SAID: “I won by like — they say I lost by like — I didn’t lose.”

THE FACTS: Trump did lose in 2020 to Democrat Joe Biden. Trump’s claims that fraud cost him the race were investigated repeatedly.

Trump’s own attorney general said there were no signs of significant fraud. The Republican-run state Senate in Michigan, one of the swing states where Trump claimed fraud occurred, came to the same conclusion after a lengthy investigation. An investigation by the nonpartisan Legislative Audit Bureau in Wisconsin, ordered by the state’s GOP-controlled Legislature in another state Trump claimed to have been defrauded from winning, also found no substantial fraud.Rogan chortled when Trump was arguing, correctly, that his loss was close. Trump lost the election narrowly in six swing states. If about 81,000 votes had flipped, Trump could have won Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Wisconsin and gotten enough support in the Electoral College to remain president.

Trump misstated that margin as 22,000 votes.

特朗普说：“发生的事情是法官不想碰它。他们会说，'你没有地位。他们没有根据案情做出裁决。

事实：这不是真的。特朗普和他的支持者在试图推翻大选的 50 多起诉讼中败诉。

一组共和党附属的选举律师和法律学者审查了特朗普挑战 2020 年大选的所有 64 起诉讼，发现其中只有 20 起在就案情举行听证会之前被法官驳回。在 30 起案件中，对特朗普的裁决是在关于案情听证会之后做出的。

斯坦福大学胡佛研究所（Hoover Institution）的报告发现，在其余14起案件中，特朗普和他的盟友甚至在进入案情阶段之前就放弃了诉讼。报告指出：“在许多情况下，特朗普的法律代表在对不法行为提出夸张的指控后，空手而归地出现在法庭或州诉讼中，然后又回到他们的集会和媒体活动中，重复同样没有根据的说法。Judges ruled against Trump on the merits repeatedly

WHAT TRUMP SAID: “What happened is judges don’t want to touch it. They would say, ‘you don’t have standing.’ They didn’t rule on the merits.”

THE FACTS: That’s not true. Trump and his supporters lost more than 50 lawsuits trying to overturn the election.

A group of Republican-affiliated election lawyers and legal scholars reviewed all 64 of the Trump lawsuits challenging the 2020 election and found only 20 of them were dismissed by judges before a hearing on the merits. In 30 cases, the rulings against Trump came after hearings on the merits.In the remaining 14 cases, the report for Stanford University’s Hoover Institution found, Trump and his allies dropped their lawsuits before they even got to the merits phase. “In many cases, after making extravagant claims of wrongdoing, Trump’s legal representatives showed up in court or state proceedings empty-handed, and then returned to their rallies and media campaigns to repeat the same unsupported claims,” the report states.

特朗普说：“我们应该去纸质选票。

事实：特朗普和罗根都认为投票机不可靠，美国应该依赖纸质选票。特朗普甚至引用了他的亿万富翁科技大亨支持者埃隆·马斯克 （Elon Musk） 对这种变化的热情。

然而，几乎所有国家都已经做出了这种转变。

根据布伦南司法中心的数据，2020 年，美国超过 90% 的选举管辖区使用纸质选票。次年，联邦选举援助委员会（Election Assistance Commission）修改了指导方针，建议每个辖区都使用纸质报纸。

唯一不使用纸质选票或任何形式的纸质记录投票系统的州是共和党控制的路易斯安那州。Almost every state already uses paper ballots

WHAT TRUMP SAID: “We should go to paper ballots.”

THE FACTS: Trump and Rogan both argued that voting machines are unreliable and that the United States should rely on paper ballots. Trump even cited his billionaire tech mogul supporter Elon Musk’s enthusiasm for such a change.

Almost all of the country already made that switch, however.

In 2020, more than 90% of the election jurisdictions in the U.S. used paper ballots, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. The next year, the federal Election Assistance Commission changed its guidelines to recommend every jurisdiction use paper.

The only state not to use a voting system with paper ballots or a paper trail of any sort is Republican-run Louisiana.

特朗普说：“他们利用 COVID 来欺骗。

事实：特朗普的核心论点是，民主党的一个大阴谋在新冠病毒大流行期间改变了投票程序，使邮寄投票更受欢迎，然后阴谋者通过这些邮寄投票操纵了对他不利的选举。事实并非如此。

当大流行在 2020 年 3 月的总统初选期间首次袭击时，共和党和民主党选举官员迅速转向鼓励邮寄投票，以避免拥挤的投票。这相对没有争议，直到特朗普反对它，声称这将为潜在的欺诈埋下种子。

在这样做的过程中，特朗普又回到了他惯用的剧本，声称他没有赢得的任何选举都是欺诈性的。他对自己输掉的第一场竞选，即 2016 年艾奥瓦州的共和党预选会议提出了这种说法。他甚至声称，由于非法移民投票，他在 2016 年失去了普选，尽管他为寻找证据而组建的一个总统委员会在没有找到任何证据的情况下解散了。Republicans and Democrats encouraged mail voting during the pandemic

WHAT TRUMP SAID: “They used COVID to cheat.”

THE FACTS: Trump’s central argument is that a grand Democratic conspiracy changed voting procedures during the coronavirus pandemic to make mail voting more popular and that the conspirators then rigged the election against him through those mail votes. That’s not what happened.

When the pandemic first hit during the 2020 presidential primary in March, Republican and Democratic election officials quickly switched to encourage mail voting to avoid crowded polls. This was relatively uncontroversial until Trump turned against it, claiming it would lay the seeds for potential fraud.

In doing so, Trump was returning to his usual playbook, claiming that any election he doesn’t win is fraudulent. He made that claim about the first contest he lost, Iowa’s 2016 Republican caucus. He even claimed he lost the popular vote in 2016 because of voting by illegal immigrants, though a presidential commission he empaneled to find evidence of it disbanded without finding any proof.

事实：选民欺诈的孤立案例由来已久，但在现代还没有达到影响全国选举所需的水平。美联社（Associated Press）的一项审查发现，在所有六个战场州中，特朗普总共输掉了超过30万张选票的案件不到475起——太少了，无法改变结果。

THE FACTS: Isolated cases of voters fraud have long occurred, but in modern times have not reached the levels needed to sway a national election. An Associated Press review found fewer than 475 cases in all six battleground states that Trump lost by more than a combined 300,000 votes — far too little to change the outcome.